The biggest problem that we as simple humans have now is mainstream media, that which distorts and sensationalizes any story to build it up to superhuman impossible expectations! These stories appear on CNN, Fox, Al Jazeera, and many of the most vaunted independent sources of the present day.
The Chapel Hill, NC story featured the horrible “Atheist” who cold-bloodedly murdered 3 Muslim students. The ISIS stories reign in our news as the need for the communities of non-muslims to denounce things that are done in fanatic adherence to a religion that most Muslims know nothing of! President Obama said it best when he referenced the horrors carried out by Christians during the Crusades! This shit actually happened on the Catholic watch and was endorsed as the word of God!
We need to get away from totally fucking with the people of Islam in America and seeing as these people are only about 5-10% of the population of the cities of the U.S and are against the shit that ISIS peddles. You WILL NOT fuck with the students in my area, you WILL NOT fuck with the businesses in my area because the loyal Americans that you persecute are of the religion of Islam! Leave them alone and I will leave YOU alone! Ibrahim is not your enemy and his appearance IS NOT a reason for you to hate him! Expand your fucking mind and get your head out of your ass!
In the past, I have been more vocal, but I admit the ability to learn and advance! I know peaceful Muslims and I dislike those who fuck over their peaceful message. Christians have fucked people over as well, but now the same bullshit is being applied to the religion of Islam. I am a person who dislikes all religion, but I, as a skeptic and atheist, must ask these people to come into my realm and agree to a discourse on religion and other things. I can only hope that the religious take from my talks a fact based science laden proof-mongering refutation that blows their religious mythology out of the water for the long haul. No religion stands up to the truth of facts and it never will. No religious person can produce one single fact that corroborates their god or anything else.
In conclusion, we find so many things that debunk or disprove the supernatural, and meet with so many people that claim false intelligence to wild claims, yet fall short as anyone should when supposing unsubstantiated clams. Love me some Kinesiology, some Chakra re alignment, some crystal healing, some acupuncture healing.
Most of this shit is a load of crap and needs to be thrown into the bin of scientific shit!!
I am honest if I am anything and I post this as a confession to my true nature as a member of the human race, I am ethical and will do what I must as dictated by societal norms, but I do not believe in the things that I do equal right from wrong in the great scheme of things. I am a misanthrope, more commonly described as a person who does not thrive in the presence of other human beings. I am not a lover of the human race and find it to be an infection on the planet Earth that uses personal greed and interest to destroy the natural order of things regardless of the outcome.
Sorry but the reality of the matter is that the few who recognize the selfishness of the human infection are actually the forward thinking members of society who have separated themselves from the groupthink of society and realize that humanity’s only goal is to breed the planet into extinction without a second thought! The PC assholes continue to ignore the reality of the matrix of the number of rats in the maze! The weak are meant to perish and the strong are meant to dominate, PERIOD! To believe anything else is to subscribe to liberal populist illogical bullshit! I know that in an unstable ecosystem the ruling caste would evaluate the most essential and do away with the superfluous. I am there. I am not a hipster asshole who deludes myself or am not a knee-jerk liberal asshole who deludes myself into believing that the strong will protect my weak ass! I know that if I am strong and can benefit the whole, that I will live on and keep my people alive.
I don’t know about the way I feel about people. I am ambiguous. I continuously analyse how I deal with humanity and realize that I need to inspect my ambivalence regarding them. Humans fascinate me, but I find it hard to actually care for them. This is a problem. I see them as a scientific equation and nothing more, so feeling is a stretch. I will be willing to kill for crimes relating to children. For some reason I cannot ignore their suffering, but I can ignore that of the adult. I am willing to ignore crimes against adults……where does this ambivalence come from?
I am closed of groupthink, but am complex of everything else.
First off, let me actually share something about myself to give a better picture. L started my life on the street and didn’t get off until I was 17. I am a minor alcoholic who consumes about 1 to 2 six packs of beer a week and I don’t apologize for it. I am a consumer of organic foods and I work out five days a week. I am into sustainable farming and decreasing my carbon footprint as well as doing away with the shackles of credit card debt. I am currently into converting my area into solar, wind and water power so as to free myself from the ‘grid of slavery.’ As you know, I am an atheist because the blind belief in one of MANY myths is absolutely illogical and ridiculous to me because the bullshit is rather obvious. I don’t wait for a cosmic sky fairy to come to my rescue in matters because I am too intelligent to be sooo obtuse! . . The proof is there and against the idiocy of religion. If GAWD cared so much about us, he would not employ stupid bullshit rules to keep us in the dark! These fucking fairy stories make every excuse for this imaginary being to stay in the shadows and NOT solve very real problems here on Earth! If people would just take personal responsibility and solve these problems, they would go away, but they are too busy believing in the cosmic sky-cocksucker to get their assess in gear! Convenient huh? Well I am tired of bitching about things that are illogical and will attempt to effect a change instead of just being a mouthpiece. I realize that there are multitudes of people who are willing to give their opinions and sit on their religious assess and do dick, but I am not one of those!
First of all, I think that the penal( penal system..prisoners ass-fucking one another…penal system ), should involve shock collars, mandatory slave labor and forced education without the drug use and ass fucking! Get the private contractors out and return the reins to the Gub. and institute forced education! Make it to where these people come out of lockup with a degree and give the employers incentive to hire them! No drug use and ass fucking equals no need for therapy and welfare! Imagine! Functional people rehabilitated and an actual CORRECTIONAL system! These guys would break the cycle of poverty in their families and contribute to a stronger America!!
Next, make welfare people responsible for themselves by requiring work for the welfare check! We already take care of their every need for free, why not empower these lazy bastards?! Give them education benefits and get them employable!!! Shit man! We could almost be like EVERY OTHER civilized country by doing this! Subsidize the first 4 yrs of college and make certain leaves mandatory!!! I LOVE THIS TYPE OF SOCIALISM, because it works!!! Actually rehabilitate prisoners and welfare folks and end corporate welfare by charging these ass-fucking-holes a fair tax to put public works into place, because our current public works should be called ‘A fucking joke.’
I am going to go out there into the goddammed world and stump for this shit because it makes sense and will save this nation. Don’t get me wrong, the weak assess that won’t work should be purged from the system and given a choice on how to redeem themselves, but the system should be based on social Darwinism as a person who refuses to pull their weight should be left to die! These answers are logical and give slacker a way to redeem themselves. The idiots who thought that giving someone a check for nothing should have been hanged in public because they were too stupid to live! Keep personal responsibility in the mix, because to ignore it is to fall into the fucking stupid liberal plan to disable an entire generation of people! Extremes in all arenas are unworkable, but I tend to disagree with all things extremely liberal because these people are fucking ignorant assholes with too much time on their hands who HAVE NEVER experienced true need. Give them a purpose and they will make something of themselves!
I am going to find picket lines and conferences to speak against the things that I want changed. I encourage others to do this as it lends credence to your arguments. I currently speak out against human trafficking because I believe that as long as my children are free to be children. then it is mt responsibility to not buy products such as Nike, who use slave labor to make their shoes, and to refuse business to others that use the backs of children to make their billions like that fucking ass-fucking-hole Phil Knight! Phil donates shit loads of money to philanthropic causes yet maintains sweat shops in third world countries to produce the millions that he gives to charity over here! Phil is a fucking bastard trying to keep his name alive after his death. Fuck Phil and fuck Nike!!
Archive for Joseph Smith
Posted in Language, Mormonism, Skepticism with tags arabic, Atheism,bullshit in the book of mormon, Con artist, cults, golden plates, hebrew,Joseph Smith, linguistics, Mobots, Mormons, New Testament, reformed egyptian, Skepticism, translation, Utah on March 22, 2009 by theicidalmaniac
Arabic Book of Mormon
Utah has no shortage of mythology and folklore, a great deal of which is tied to the LDS church organization and its, er, interesting tales. Arecent discussion on Postmormon.org , in which I participated, reveals the ubiquity of these dubious stories. Among them are claims that a Mormon official encountered bigfoot while on horseback, and discovered the beast to be none other than Cain, the son of Adam. And of course no suite of tall tales would be complete without a lake monster story. Utah’s Bear Lake is said to be the home of one such monster, and local folklore has it that Bear Lake is connected to Loch Ness in Scotland by a long tunnel which serves as a a thoroughfare for Nessie as he travels, apparently through magma, between the two locations. It has even been reported that Brigham Young himself went to great expense to catch the monster using 300 feet of rope and a large custom-crafted hook baited with a sheep.
Myths abound here in the wild country, but I wanted to focus on something that came up recently in my family. My mother handed me an email recently, which was given to her by her mother, forwarded by her sister-in-law (that’s how these things apparently propagate in the digital age, even among octogenarians). It was a four page “transcript” of a “speech” given by former apostle Russel M. Nelson. She handed it to me saying “you’re a linguist,” (I’m not, although I am studying linguistics) “I think you might find this interesting.” She then qualified this by saying that she was in no way attempting to “re-convert me,” although I think that this was precisely her intent. Fortunately, I had come across this story some time before and was prepared to handle it. I’ll only provide a link to the “talk” called “Reflections of Sami Hanna,” rather than post the entire contents here. In the text, it is claimed that one Dr. Sami Hanna, an expert in Semitic languges, was converted to Mormonism after determining that it was a true Semitic text. Here is a link which, in its preface disclaimer, alludes to the biggest problem in establishing the truth of the claims that lie within. The author of the page states:
“Elder Nelson has mentioned Sami Hanna in several talks. All the information mentioned in this talk regarding what Mr. Hanna learned during his translation of the Book of Mormon into Arabic is accurate and verifiable. Why I have a disclaimer is because I have not been able to find where THIS PARTICULAR talk originated. I am not nor have I ever intimated that Elder Nelson or anyone else made up Sami Hanna or his story. I just don’t know if Elder Nelson gave this specific talk as it is written, or if it is just a compilation of other talks given by Elder Nelson on this subject. It could just be a copy of a sacrament meeting talk he gave in 1976 that was never published. The origin of this talk itself is not what’s important. What is important is that everything mentioned in it is true.“
Elder Nelson did, indeed, mention Dr. Hanna in several talks, however Elder Nelson’s office released an official statement denying that he wrote “Reflections of Sami Hanna.” One might wonder then, is Elder Nelson lying about having written it, or did the author lie about being Elder Nelson? Either way, the entire story is therefore discredited as a hoax.
Do I stop there? Oh no. Not on your life. Because people still believe this! To be fair, this has been rejected by most of the online Mormon apologetic community, but it is still circulating, so I feel I must treat it. I’m going to look at the specific claims, and deconstruct them.
*This may not be of interest to all readers. I have provided this information for anyone who has been duped by this fraud of a story, or for non-Mormons who have heard the tale and lack the inside info to tackle the technical aspects. For those who are uninterested, rest assured that I will return soon with other, more tantalizing tidbits!
The story claims that Dr. Hanna was converted when he translated the Book of Mormon into Arabic.
Sami Hanna is an expert in Semitic languages, and legend has it that, upon being presented with a Book of Mormon, he began to translate it into Arabic. He was stunned by the ease with which the book flowed back into a Semitic language, so much so that he became immediately convinced of its authenticity and converted to Mormonism. This claim has been supported by Nelson elsewhere, and a certain Mark Hanna, who claims to be Sami’s son, affirms that this is true, but says that it was a momentary lapse of reason, and that now Dr. Hanna has reverted to some more ancient form of Christ worship. So this checks out, but it is hardly helpful in supporting the major claim being made.
The story further claims that “this was to be a translation back to the original language of the book.”
As far as I can tell this would, indeed, have been the first Arabic translation, however to claim that this would convert it back into the “original language” is problematic, to say the least. The book of Mormon is said by Mormons to have been started around 600 BCE. But the earliest evidence of Arabic, the ABSOLUTE earliest thing that linguists can call Arabic, dates from 328 CE, over 900 years AFTERNephi supposedly started writing in America after traveling from Jerusalem. What’s more, the Book of Mormon directly states in Mormon 9:32-33 that the native tongue of the authors was Hebrew, but that they had to write in “Reformed Egyptian” characters, a writing system unknown to linguists, and not optimized for Hebrew. The same verse goes on to state that due to their inability to write in Hebrew script, there were imperfections in the record, complicating any “easy translation.”
If Nephi’s people (Nephi being the supposed first author of the canonized Mormon text) were linguistically isolated from their original language community for nearly 1,000 years, and during that time another language popped up from the same source in a different location, it is HIGHLY unlikely that those two languages would have much in common, except for some word roots, the way English and Persian share some roots. A language COMPLETELY replaces approximately 10% of its vocabulary every 1,000 years or so. This may not sound impressive at first glance, so allow me to illustrate:
Britain is invaded by waves of Germanic and Roman groups for centuries, until around 500 CE a language, Old English (Anglo-Saxon), forms as a composite of Germanic and Latin, and the local Britton languages. 500 years later, the Normans invade England and English takes on a Norman twist, then is later influenced heavily by French as France became the great world power. Thus English is related to German, and also to French, and to Spanish through Latin. All of these languages share a common ancestor, Indo-European, as does Greek and Persian (Farsi). Let’s look at the word for HEART in each of these languages:
OLD ENGLISH: Heorte
Some of these may seem unrelated. You might say that over the years – the thousand and a half years since English split from Latin, the several thousand years since each of these split from Indo-European, that the vocabulary for heart has changed. But it hasn’t, as such. These are merely morphologically different incarnations of the same original Indo-European root word. Indo-European “Kerd” morphed into “khertan” in Proto-Germanic, into “kardia” in Greek, and “cor” in Latin. Latin is responsible for both “cœur” in French and “corazón” in Spanish, as is plain to see. “Kardia” is responsible for our term “cardio,” and “khertan” became “heorte” and by 1500 CE, the present-day English “HEART“. So the vocab of this word is considered the same, and would not be part of that 10% new vocab I mentioned above, despite the very different look between the Greek, German, and French. The kinds of changes that represent a shift in vocabulary are even stronger than that. What is meant when it is said that 10% of the vocabulary changes is that COMPLETELY NOVEL words are invented out of whole cloth, or are replaced by loan words from unrelated languages. For instance, if an Englishman moved to Utah, he might see mountainous rock formations that were completely alien to his English mountains, and would have to either invent a new word to describe them, or borrow an Indian word, thus changing the vocabulary of the language.
We would expect such changes to vocabulary from 600 BCE, when Nephi began writing his American adventure, to 328 CE, when Arabic was in its infancy. Not to mention the regular morphological changes and vowel shifting, dialectical anomalies, and spelling changes that would have taken place during that time. Not to mention the fact that the Nephites would have invented TONS of new words when they came to a completely NEW WORLD with (apparently) no native hosts from whom they could borrow vocabulary. The Arabs, too, would have had their own unique words, because they would have had completely different technology at the time the language came about, again requiring novel vocabulary. The two languages, even at that point 1700 years ago, would have been mutually unintelligible, to say nothing of the difficulties Sami Hanna would have run into 30 years ago. There is NO WAY that there would be an easy flow between the languages, ESPECIALLY if translating from a writing system that is not optimized for the given language! The LAST thing you could expect here would be ease in translation between unrelated languages separated by two and a half thousand years of technological advance.
…the Prophet Joseph did not merely render an interpretation, but a word for word translation from the Egyptian type of hieroglyphic into the English language.
There is no 1-1 exchange for word meanings between ANY 2 languages, but this is ESPECIALLY true for languages from completely different linguistic families, like Indo-European (English) and Semitic or Afro-Asiatic (Arabic, Aramaic, Hebrew).
“In the name of Allah, the merciful, the benevolent…”
The first page shows the verse in Arabic, the second page shows the translation from EACH of 32 different scholars. NOT ONE of the 32 professional translations is identical. NOT ONE. This is ONE verse, 3words, yielding 32 distinct translations out of 32 attempted translations. Granted the differeneces are subtle, but they would be compounded if you then attempted to translate those translationsBACK into Arabic!
An HILARIOUS illustration of this is something I found in a DVD version of Monty Python and the Holy Grail, (click title for example) in the special features. There is a feature where they take the Japanese version of the film, and translate the Japanese dubbed dialog back into English. The original feel of the dialog is lost completely, the phrasing mostly quite different, and several utterances are virtually unintelligible. We see instances of words and concepts replaced altogether (“bonsai” for “shrubbery,” is one such example, but “sake cup” for “Holy Grail” is the more poignant example, as clearly the purpose of the quest is completely lost if all they are after is a cup for their warm rice-wine). The sequences still make me LOL. Funny as that example is, that is typical of the kind of results you can expect when trying to translate from language A to language B, and then back to A again, and this is something that will crop up independent of the other factors I mentioned above. The whole notion of this “easy flow of translation” is utterly recockulous!
His conversion came purely from the linguistics of the book which he found could not have been composed by an American, no matter how gifted.
Probably one of the favorite apologies for the Book of Mormon goes a little something like this:
“there is no way that an uneducated farm-boy like Joseph Smith could have written a masterpiece like the Book of Mormon.”
We shall see, going forward, that this is far from the case, but here are some examples given:
1. Jarom 2: “It must needs be . . .” This expression, odd and awkward in English, is excellent Arabic grammar. Elsewhere in the book the use of the compound verbs “did eat,” “did go,” “did smile,” etc., again awkward and rarely used in English, are classical and correct grammar in the Semitic languages.
Must needs be appears in both the Old Testament (ex. “must needsbe circumcised,” Gen 17:13) AND in the New Testament (ex. “scripturemust needs have been fulfilled,” Acts 1:16) of the King James Bible, which is, incidentally, the version of the Bible that Joseph Smith himself purported to have read over and over long before translating the Book of Mormon. Furthermore, I’d hardly call the phrase odd and awkward, given its liberal use by the likes of Shakespeare (Hamlet, All’s Well that Ends Well, Henry VI, and many other plays and poems), Johnathan Swift, and Charles Dickens.http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=20010817
“Did eat”, “did go,” etc, is used throughout the KJV, like King James thought it was going out of style.
Not only did the old farm boy have ACCESS to the KJV, he admitted freely to having poured over it prior to any divine work as God’s translator.
2. Omni 18: “Zarahemla gave a genealogy of his fathers, according to his memory.” Brother Hanna indicates that this is a typical custom of his Semitic forebearers to recite their genealogy from memory.
Indeed. For that matter it was also a common practice among manyother cultures, particularly European and Britton which provide the principle ancestry of America in Joseph Smith’s lifetime. Here is an excellent write-up on the topic of geneological recitations:http://nicolaa5.tripod.com/articles/Hector/hist/HGene.htm
3. Words of Mormon 17: Reference is made here as in other parts of the Book of Mormon, to the “stiffneckedness” of his people. Brother Hanna perceives that this word would be a very unusual word for an American youth as Joseph Smith to use. An American would likely prefer an adjective such as stubborn or inflexible. But the custom in the Arabic language is to use just such a descriptive adjective. Stiff-necked is an adjective they use in describing an obstinate person.
Again, this is found in multiple places in both the Old Testament (ex. Exod 32:9, 33:3, Deut 9:6) as well as the New Testament (Acts 7:51). Sure, Smith COULD have gotten this phrase by reading it out of a hat using the same seer stones that he had once used to con money out of farmers when he used them to locate “buried treasure” left behind by ancient Indians on their farm land, but if he did he’d have been doing it the hard way; everything he needed was right there in the KJV, and would hardly be “unusual” considering the religious fervor of the time.
4. Mosiah 11:8: “King Noah built many elegant and spacious buildings and ornamented them with fine work and precious things, including ziff.” Have you ever wondered about the meaning of the word “ziff” referred to in this scripture? This word, although in the Book of Mormon, is not contained in dictionaries of the English language. Yet it translates freely back into the Arabic language, forziff is a special kind of curved sword somewhat like a simitar which is carried in a sheath and often used for ornamentation as well as for more practical purposes. The discovery of the word “ziff” in the Book of Mormon really excited my neighbor, Brother Hanna.
Although I was unable to find any reference to an Arabic word “Ziff” on the entire internet (Google’s never heard of it, outside of references to the Sami Hanna story, nor has my Arabic-English, English-Arabic dictionary) I was able to find the ACTUAL reference (the above quotation is not correct) to “ZIFF” in the BoM that is CLEARLY not meant to denote a weapon:
Mosiah 11:8 – “And it came to pass that king Noah built many elegant and spacious buildings; and he ornamented them with fine work of wood, and of all manner of precious things, of gold, and of silver, and of iron, and of brass, and of ZIFF, and of copper.” This is clearly some type of raw metal used as a decoration, and does not support the claim in regard to an archaic weapon that may or may not have ever existed. Clearly, the verse was misquoted in order to support an already unlikely claim. Unfortunately for the author of “Reflections,” he also failed to realize, or at least to acknowledge, that archeologists have discovered that although Native Americans may have had some crude metal-working abilities, they never developed the technology to construct metal weaponry, nor was weapons-grade steel introduced to the continent until Columbus arrived in the late 1400′s CE. Later the Natives’ stone weapons, still in vogue in indigenous America in the 1500′s, were easily overcome by Spanish steel.
What’s more, it seems quite likely that I could make a sound with my mouth, any sound at all, and find dozens, perhaps hundreds, of languages for which that sound has a specific meaning among the nearly 7,000 human languages that currently exist, or the thousands more that have perished. It would hardly require divine inspiration.
6. Helaman 1:3: Here reference is made to the contending for the judgment seat. Brother Hanna observes that the use of the term “judgment seat” would be quite strange to an American who might have used a more familiar noun such as governor, president, or ruler. Yet, in Arabic custom, the place of power rests in the judgment seat and whoever occupies that seat, is the authority and power. The authority goes with the seat and not with the office or the person. So, this, in the Semitic languages, connotes the meaning exactly.
Romans 14:10, KJV “…we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.” (yawn)
Points 5, 7 and 8 also describe characteristics of the KJV Bible, and we’ve beat that dead horse enough, so I’ll not include them, but feel free to refer to the document from the link I provided earlier and check it out for yourself.
“Well, I have just cited a few of these examples. There are many more! As Latter-day Saint leaders, we are aware of the Semitic origin of the Book of Mormon. The fact that an Arabic scholar such as this seems[sic] a beautiful internal consistency in the Prophet Joseph Smith’s translation of the book, is of great interest, for the Prophet Joseph did not merely render an interpretation, but a word for word translation from the Egyptian type of hieroglyphic into the English language. Brother Hanna said the Book of Mormon simply flowed back into the Arabic language.”
“As Latter-day Saint leaders,” the quote says. Remember that Elder Nelson was, in fact, a leader in the LDS church, but that he denied authorship of this document. One wonders what the true author must have been thinking as (s)he wrote this line, which can only be a boldface lie. Did the author intend a pious fraud, where shady means justify the glorious ends, or was this merely a prank? Are there people out there whose role it is to create and propagate salacious stories like this in order to reinforce faith falsely? We don’t know.
But this bullshit has been laid to rest.
The christian crusades mark some of the most bloody and mad chapters in religious history and are a perfect reason to judge the validity of following illogical shit blindly. For nearly three centuries christianity launched an offensive against the forces of Islam due to idiological differences. Europe had expended such an exponential number of men and an astronomical amount of money to fight for it’s right for a superior mythology, that the entire continent teetered on the brink of bankruptcy if not total insolvency. Millions died of disease, injury and hunger while attempting to inflict the atrocities of torture upon the minions of Mohammed the bible thief. The Islamic religion was, in fact, stolen from the bible in the 600s and ended in 632 CE literally translated as ‘the recitation’ The Holy Quran. As with all myths, the Quran was a linchpin in Mohammed’s arsenal to unite the warring clans of the desert and put them under the banner of a ‘one true god.’
Christianity, with it’s melding of pagan holidays and appeasing of the conquered peoples of Rome created a hodge-podge religion of inaccuracies that was the greatest model for illiterates such as Mohammed and Joseph Smith to create a living document that could control an immense number of illiterate followers. This is the truth of the history of christianity. The advancement of society led to the need to modify the mythology to keep the lemmings in the pews and show that the religion was one of devine tolerance, but I digress.
1066-1099-The first crusade was a military expidition sanctioned by Pope Urban II to regain christian Holy lands taken in the Muslim conquests of the Levant ( 632-661 ), ultimately leading in the capture of Jerusalem in 1099. The Pope, of course, responding to an appeal by Emperor Alexios I Komnenos to send westerner volunteers to his aid in repelling invading Seljuk Turks from Anatolia. The additional goal became the primary goal to conquer Jerusalem and the Holy land in order to free the Eastern Christians from Islamic rule. More to come!!