The Sad, Conflicted Lives of America’s Gay Mormons


The Sad, Conflicted Lives of America’s Gay Mormons
By Scott Bixby January 15, 2015 

A man who made major news by publishing a survey of hundreds of gay members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints now faces excommunication for his advocacy of same-sex marriage.

John Dehlin, a doctoral student of clinical and counseling psychology at Utah State University and LGBT activist, working with Bill Bradshaw, a retired professor of molecular biology at Brigham Young University, published a historic 1,612-person survey of LGBT/same-sex attracted members of the Mormon church, producing statistics that further bolster the argument that, however complicated human sexuality may be, “praying away the gay” does more harm than good — and bringing a spouse along for the ride can be even more damaging. The survey was the largest of its kind, soliciting responses through the Internet from Mormons in 48 states and 22 countries.

The results? Married gay Mormons are three times as likely to get divorced.

The study, combined with Dehlin’s outspoken advocacy, has led to the commencement of excommunication proceedings against him on charges of apostasy for supporting same-sex marriage and the ordination of women.

Dehlin told the New York Times that his regional church leader had scheduled a disciplinary hearing later this month. “I would prefer for them to leave me alone,” he said in an interview with the Times, “but if given the choice between denying my conscience and facing excommunication, I’d much rather be excommunicated.”

The numbers behind his study tell a depressing story for gay Mormons. Between 51% and 69% of so-called “mixed-orientation marriages” between Mormons end in divorce; in comparison, roughly 26% of all Mormon marriages end in divorce. More than 70% of LGBT or “same-sex attracted” — the term used by those who acknowledge they are sexually and/or romantically attracted to members of the same sex but don’t identify as gay, lesbian or bisexual — Mormons end up leaving the church, either on their own volition or through excommunication.

A staggering 80% of respondents said they had undergone attempts to “change” their sexual orientation — 85% of those attempts were through a combination of religious and personal efforts, 31% were private efforts exclusively, 40% were through so-called “reparative therapists” and 21% were through group efforts.

The tactics used in reparative therapy — dismissed as dangerous quackery by the American Medical Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association and the American Counseling Association, among many other medical and mental health organizations — can range from masturbatory reconditioning and creative visualization to aversive treatments that pair electric shocks or nausea-inducing drugs with the presentation of homoerotic stimuli.

According to an American Psychological Association study, although some participants in the therapy report experiencing a lessening of same-sex attraction, these instances are “rare” and “uncommon,” and concluded that “given the limited amount of methodically sound research, claims that [reparative therapy] is effective are not supported.” Treatment in action is hard to watch:

These mixed-orientation marriages are driven by a struggle between faith and sexuality. The attempts to rewire human sexual desire are closely tied to the Mormon subjects’ desire to get married within the church, one of the nine “saving ordinances,” or rituals required for exaltation after death. According to a national religious survey conducted by Trinity College in 2008, 86% of Mormons are either married or have been married, the highest rate for any religious group in the United States.

This comports well with the experience of Jared Fronk, an economics Ph.D. in Washington D.C. and former member of the church.

“Not getting married is not an option. Unwed members are looked down upon with pity by all and contempt by more than a few,” Fronk told Mic. “Since heterosexual marriage is the purpose of life, it is assumed that anyone who does not get married (barring any obvious impediment) must therefore be secretly sinful or otherwise unworthy of the Lord’s blessings. It surpasses my skill with words to describe the sheer weight of cultural norms and religious dogma that drives gay men and women into heterosexual Mormon marriages.”

Although Gordon B. Hinckley, the 15th president of the church, declared in 1987 that “marriage should not be viewed as a therapeutic step to solve problems such as homosexual inclinations or practices,” he did subtly endorse reparative therapy by announcing that marriage would be attainable once an LDS member overcame same-sex attraction “with a firm and fixed determination never to slip to such practices again.”

“Not getting married is not an option. Unwed members are looked down upon with pity by all and contempt by more than a few.”
That “firm and fixed determination” has led to mixed relationship results for LGBT Mormons: 42% of respondents in the historic survey are single, and 16% say they are one-half of a heterosexual marriage; just more than twice that percentage are in committed same-sex relationships. Peer-reviewed studies of mixed-orientation marriages have shown that many such relationships are rooted in religious approval of the “traditional” nuclear family — but these arrangements seldom work out. According to one German study, most of these marriages collapse due to infidelity as wife and lover compete for exclusivity: “The ‘love triangle’ can rarely be closed.”

“There is talk of lifelong celibacy as an option for gay men and women,” Fronk says, “but I have never heard of a success story. Every case of which I have heard has ended with either a mixed-orientation marriage or the man or woman ‘falling away’ from the LDS church, which in Mormondom is a fate far, far worse than death. I think most Mormon parents would rather their child die in righteousness — and thus be assured a place in heaven — than live in sin.”

The survey backs up Fronk’s assertions. The cognitive dissonance for those Mormons who came to discover their feelings of same-sex attraction were intractable pushed more than half to reject their faith entirely: 53% of the survey’s respondents rejected their LDS identity, compared with only 6% who rejected their LGBT identity.

Although there are a few organizations that aim to bridge the divide between LGBT and Mormon identity, only 4% of the people surveyed say they have “integrated” the two, like Jimmy Hales, star of a viral coming-out video wherein he declares that being a gay Mormon means he’s “going to lead a celibate life. Sucks.” But there’s no way around it. After all, “the doctrine of the Mormon church isn’t going to change.”

The lives behind the numbers are even more complicated. While most Americans know the Mormon church hasn’t exactly been a champion of gay rights, its history with homosexuality in principle and gay church members in practice is more complicated.

In a briefing on homosexuality, the LDS church states that “the church firmly believes that all people are equally beloved children of God and deserve to be treated with love and respect,” quoting apostle Elder Quentin L. Cook in stating that “as a church, nobody should be more loving and compassionate. Let us be at the forefront in terms of expressing love, compassion and outreach. Let’s not have families exclude or be disrespectful of those who choose a different lifestyle as a result of their feelings about their own gender.” The church has tepidly supported statutes protecting LGBT Americans from workplace and housing discrimination. features a biography of a gay Mormon as part of its “I’m a Mormon” campaign, and the church has even created a website to address its relationship with the LGBT community.

But as LGBT people around the world have learned from Pope Francis, kind words haven’t always translated into kind actions. Hinckley himself stated in Ensign, the church magazine, that “we cannot stand idle if they indulge in immoral activity, if they try to uphold and defend and live in a so-called same-sex marriage situation. To permit such would be to make light of the very serious and sacred foundation of God-sanctioned marriage.”

The church has also flexed its muscle on LGBT-rights issues in the public sphere. Involvement by the church and proxy organizations in the Proposition 8 battle in California is widely seen as key to the initiative’s passage, with as much as half of the $40 million raised on behalf of the measure contributed by Mormons. The church has also historically maintained uncomfortably close ties with organizations that practice reparative therapy, including experiments at Brigham Young in the 1970s that delivered powerful electric shocks to the genitals of men experiencing arousal while watching gay pornography.

According to Fronk, the thin line between homosexual attraction and homosexual actions is blurrier than some church officials make it out to be. “In official discourse, same-gender attraction is often likened to a short temper or a problem with drugs: a weakness to be overcome but not a sin in itself. Acting on those impulses is what incurs God’s wrath.

“All that said, my experience growing up as an active member of the LDS church was that there was no fine distinction made between the two. Being gay was a sin. Full stop. In the pantheon of mortal sins, only murder out-eviled homosexuality.”

The feeling of failure was as devastating as the feeling of same-sex attraction itself. “I grew up thinking gays were the worst of sinners,” Fronk said. “Murderers you could kind of respect, but gays were just disgusting. I fought against acknowledging my own homosexuality for years, cycling through periods of intense depression and zealotry, convinced each time that through sheer force of prayer I could become straight and devastated anew at each failure.”

“In the pantheon of mortal sins, only murder out-eviled homosexuality.”
When same-sex attraction isn’t being described as a moral flaw, Fronk says, church members refer to it as a “disease,” a status homosexuality held in official doctrine until 1992. Blessings of healing are one of the principle sacraments of the Mormon faith, leading to the widely held belief that sufficient faith, prayer and fasting can cure anyone of the gay “disease.” Anyone failed to be cured is judged to have been insufficiently righteous.

“I served my full-time mission for the church entirely confident that for my unwavering devotion to God, He would surely heal me of my affliction,” Fronk said. “After honorably completing my service, I returned home to promptly fall in (unrequited) love with one of my best male friends, which only made me think that I had somehow failed to purge some blight of wickedness from my own soul, if God were willing to allow my curse of same-gender attraction to continue.”

Mixed-orientation marriages are just as difficult for straight spouses. According to a University of Chicago study, between 2% and 4% of ever-married American women have either knowingly or unknowingly married a gay man. According to the Straight Spouse Network, an online forum for the heterosexual spouses of LGBT men and women, “the process straight spouses go through is often described as being similar to the grieving process after the death of a loved one … however, in the case of a straight spouse, frequently the LGBT spouse is still around and involved in your life to some degree, and thus there is no clear point at which grieving ends.”

Prominent sexologist and social worker Joe Kort has controversially stated that “straight individuals rarely marry gay people accidentally,” a common narrative that leaves many heterosexual wives of gay men blaming themselves, often too embarrassed to seek support from family or friends. A Journal of Homosexuality report suggests that the side affects of the revelation that your spouse is gay — social isolation, stigma and a dearth of support — can be even more damaging than the end of a marriage.

These are real people and real marriages. The comic trope of the flamboyant husband and the clueless wife has been bandied about in popular culture forever, from Arrested Development and Parks and Recreation to TLC’s execrable My Husband’s Not Gay, a “special event” from the clogged toilet of American culture that brought you America’s Worst Tattoos and I Didn’t Know I Was Pregnant.

My Husband’s Not Gay, the latest in TLC’s long line of exploitative, voyeuristic freakshows masquerading as documentaries, follows four men who experience same-sex attraction but don’t want to live a “gay lifestyle.” It’s been slammed as “downright irresponsible” by Sarah Kate Ellis, the president and CEO of GLAAD, and more than 130,000 people have signed an online petition claiming that the show promotes “reparative therapy” and calling for its cancellation.

The decisions made by the men in My Husband’s Not Gay and by the 1,612 people in the Dehlin-Bradshaw survey are, largely, their choices to make, although many of those subjected to reparative therapy are children, treated through coercion or downright force. Rather than laughing at their own delusion and their spouses’ misfortune, we should be making the world a safer place for LGBT people to live full lives with authenticity and honesty.

For Fronk, the journey to self-acceptance took years — and the concerted efforts of people who loved him for who he was. “In the end, I was one of the lucky ones. One day I finally had the courage to begin praying to understand God’s will rather than ask him to change me. I then had my own spiritual experiences that convinced me that God had been trying to guide me all along: I had simply been asking the wrong questions.

“There was nothing wrong with me to fix. God loved me. And he wanted me to be truly happy, which for me meant accepting who I am.”

h/t Salt Lake Tribune

Humanity and things……


I am honest if I am anything and I post this as a confession to my true nature as a member of the human race, I am ethical and will do what I must as dictated by societal norms, but I do not believe in the things that I do equal right from wrong in the great scheme of things. I am a misanthrope, more commonly described as a person who does not thrive in the presence of other human beings. I am not a lover of the human race and find it to be an infection on the planet Earth that uses personal greed and interest to destroy the natural order of things regardless of the outcome.

Sorry but the reality of the matter is that the few who recognize the selfishness of the human infection are actually the forward thinking members of society who have separated themselves from the groupthink of society and realize that humanity’s only goal is to breed the planet into extinction without a second thought! The PC assholes continue to ignore the reality of the matrix of the number of rats in the maze! The weak are meant to perish and the strong are meant to dominate, PERIOD! To believe anything else is to subscribe to liberal populist illogical bullshit! I know that in an unstable ecosystem the ruling caste would evaluate the most essential and do away with the superfluous. I am there. I am not a hipster asshole who deludes myself or am not a knee-jerk liberal asshole who deludes myself into believing that the strong will protect my weak ass! I know that if I am strong and can benefit the whole, that I will live on and keep my people alive.

I don’t know about the way I feel about people. I am ambiguous. I continuously analyse how I deal with humanity and realize that I need to inspect my ambivalence regarding them. Humans fascinate me, but I find it hard to actually care for them. This is a problem. I see them as a scientific equation and nothing more, so feeling is a stretch. I will be willing to kill for crimes relating to children. For some reason I cannot ignore their suffering, but I can ignore that of the adult. I am willing to ignore crimes against adults……where does this ambivalence come from?

I am closed of groupthink, but am complex of everything else.



A little about me!


I was born on an Air Force base in Rantoul, Illinois, just outside of Chicago. My father was an Airman who packed parachutes for a living and rode out the Vietnam War on a beach drinking Cokes. He never saw any action and never had PTSD. My mother was a trailer park opportunist from a well to do family that had destroyed her mother’s business because she had a fucking axe to grind. She did not elevate herself to a better station with her mother’s business, she just destroyed it because she was a short sighted hateful bitch. This is what I gathered from her from out interactions during our lives together. She obviously had some type of mental illness component, or she was just a vindictive bitch. Who knows. 

I grew up in 38 states in every Section 8 housing complex and every homeless food shelter across the U.S.A. I observed the most blatant abuse of the welfare system possible, with parking lots filled with Mercedes Benz, apartments filled with expensive furniture, and people trolling the steak isle while talking endlessly on cell phones. I saw this in every town that I lived in and was constantly told that these were the minority of welfare people. I sold news papers, pedaled junk and worked for people who would hire me off of a lie. Sexual abuse was a footnote in my life and very brief.  I was told that the profits were better in drugs and other dealings, but I never faltered. I saw that despite the better prospects, that these people would rather sacrifice and go to jail for $2.000 a day than work for that in a two week period. I see why this is the norm, but I worked my way to the top of my profession and eschewed the easy $2.000 dollar a day method of risk and human destruction. Now, it is different, and people scramble for jobs with Master’s degrees. This is wrong and needs to be adjusted. We need to join all other civilized nations with socialized college and hopefully, when we can control our worthless ass-sucking population, socialized medicine. Don’t get me wrong, if a person can’t get their drug problem in check, Soylent Green would be a great option, but there is a future beyond addiction as long as the asshole who is addicted wants it. People should have a way out, but they should have to earn it, hands down. Fuck what yer daddy and mom did to ya. I can give you a run for your money on that one. Mom and dad weren’t around, I got it. Now wake up you assholes and realize a better way to live! Change your government and get your shit right!!


October 9th, 2013
02:27 PM ET

Creationists taunt atheists in latest billboard war

By Eric Marrapodi, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

(CNN)– A new video billboard in New York’s Times Square has a message from creationists, “To all of our atheist friends: Thank God you’re wrong.”

The video advertisement at 42nd Street and Eighth Avenue in Manhattan is one of several billboards going up this week in New York, San Francisco and Los Angeles, paid for by Answers in Genesis.

Answers in Genesis is best known as the multimillion-dollar Christian ministry behind the Creation Museum outside Cincinnati.

The museum presents the case for Young Earth creationism, following what it says is a literal interpretation of the book of Genesis, which says the Earth was created by God in six days less than 10,000 years ago.

Ken Ham, president of Answers in Genesis, said the idea for the advertisements came from an atheist billboard in Times Square at Christmas.

During the holidays, the American Atheists put up a billboard with images of Santa Claus and Jesus that read: “Keep the Merry, dump the myth.”

“The Bible says to contend for the faith,” Ham said. “We thought we should come up with something that would make a statement in the culture, a bold statement, and direct them to our website.

“We’re not against them personally. We’re not trying to attack them personally, but we do believe they’re wrong,” he said.

“From an atheist’s perspective, they believe when they die, they cease to exist. And we say ‘no, you’re not going to cease to exist; you’re going to spend eternity with God or without God. And if you’re an atheist, you’re going to be spending it without God.’ “

Dave Silverman, president of the American Atheists, said he felt sad for creationists when he saw the billboards.

“They refuse to look at the real world. They refuse to look at the evidence we have, and they offer none,” Silverman said. “They might as well be saying, ‘Thank Zeus you’re wrong’ or ‘Thank Thor you’re wrong.’ “

Silverman said he welcomed another competitor to marketplace, noting that after atheists bought a billboard two years ago in Times Square that read “You KNOW it’s a myth,” the Catholic League purchased competing space at the entrance to the Lincoln Tunnel for a sign that read “You KNOW it’s true.”

“I would suggest, if they’re actually trying to attract atheists, they should talk about proof and reason to believe in their god, not just some pithy play on words,” Silverman said.

Ham says part of the goal of the campaign is to draw people to the website for Answers in Genesis, where he offers a lengthy post on his beliefs for the proof of God.

Ham insists that this campaign is in keeping with their overall mission. “We’re a biblical authority ministry. We’re really on about the Bible and the Gospel. Now, we do have a specialty in the area of the creation account and Genesis because that’s where we say God’s word has come under attack.”

Ham said Answers in Genesis made the decision to split its marketing budget for the ministry between a regional campaign for the museum and this billboard campaign, rather than a national campaign.

IRS filings for the ministry in recent years have shown a yearly operating budget of more than $25 million. Ham said the marketing budget is about 2% of that, about $500,000 a year. Though they are waiting for all the bills to come due for this campaign, he said he expected it to cost between $150,000 and $200,000.

Silverman noted that his billboards were not video and cost approximately $25,000 last year.  He said another campaign was in the works for this year.

“They’re throwing down the gauntlet, and we’re picking it up,” Silverman said, adding that his group would “slap them in the face” with it.

Ham said that despite criticism from other Christians for being negative and the usual criticisms from secularists he received on his social media accounts, the advertisements have been a success.

“We wanted people talking about them, and we wanted discussion about this. We wanted people thinking about God,” Ham said.

The Creation Museum and the theory of Young Earth creationism are widely reviled by the broader science community.

In a YouTube video posted last year titled “Creationism Is Not Appropriate For Children,” Bill Nye the Science Guy slammed creationism, imploring parents not to teach it to their children. “We need scientifically literate voters and taxpayers for the future,” he said. “We need engineers that can build stuff and solve problems.”

The museum responded with its own video. 

For the past 30 years, Gallup Inc. has been tracking American opinions about creationism.

In June 2012, Gallup’s latest findings showed that 46% of Americans believed in creationism, 32% believed in evolution guided by God, and 15% believed in atheistic evolution.

For as long as Gallup has conducted the survey, creationism has remained far and away the most popular answer, with 40% to 47% of Americans surveyed saying they believed that God created humans in their present form at one point within the past 10,000 years.

The Creation Museum said it recently welcomed its 2 millionth visitor since its opening in 2007.

   – CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Filed under: Atheism • Belief • Christianity • Creationism • Faith Now • New York • Science

From Atheist Bastard blog



Class Dismissed

Okay, so this rant is titled Evolution. What exactly are you expecting? A discussion that’s scientific in nature?

Fuck no.

I’m not a scientist. I have zero qualifications to lecture or debate the science backing up the Big Bang and origin of life or evolution and origin of species. (I never liked science anyway. I barely passed chemistry and the only part of biology class that I enjoyed was the discussion of vaginas.)

I hold no deep interest in the science behind the origin of life or the origin of species as neither is relevant to me or my worldview in the first place. And as such I refuse to make it a debating point with Christians.

But by and large, my fellow non-believers insist on going the other way with it – which is quite possibly the dumbest move the anti-theism cause can make. No one is saying that the science behind these truths shouldn’t be defended, but there’s a big difference between defending truth and making science the cornerstone of non-belief.

And so this is where I break from the pack. I’ll be hated for this, but I’m right, they’re wrong.

I don’t care about evolution as a science because it has absolutely no bearing on what I do or don’t believe as it pertains to god.

Evolution is NOT the cornerstone of atheism, and at the end of the day I don’t give a flying fuck whether it’s valid or not.

Understand that I’m not saying that evolution is false in any way. In fact, I’ll happily stipulate that evolution is not just a theory but also that it’s a fact. While science is a process that never really ends, I consider the big picture of evolution a settled matter. However, I’ll just as easily dismiss its truth as a “nice to have” in the grand scheme of life’s great mysteries. What-the-fuck-ever. I’m perfectly fine with the mystery. But if the topic alone gets you hard, then by all means immerse yourself in the details and jerk off until you bleed.

All I’m saying is that I don’t care and that it has no bearing on whether or not any god exists. Simply stated, even if evolution were proved false, it would give absolutely no credence to (or validate) creationism or the existence of any god.

The Big Bang and evolution are wonderful topics to study and debate. Just don’t lay them as bricks in the foundation of disbelief. Remember, there are many theists who accept evolution as truth.

Attack of the Killer Dumbatoes

We attack disease because we fear suffering and death. We attack crime because we fear mayhem. We attack fire because we fear destruction. We even attack harmless bugs because, well, they just annoy us.

Christians attack any generally accepted fact or theory if its potential truth threatens what they believe to be true and therefore their intellect.

If you’re a Christian you might be thinking…

“Well, you’re attacking Christianity right now, aren’t you? You’re attempting to debunk many Christian beliefs right on this website. Are you afraid of the truth?”

First, I’m not attacking Christianity. I’m attacking all religious beliefs. Please, get it right. Admittedly I focus on Christianity because I believe its followers are by far the worst offenders of proselytization, but I do believe that all religions are based on ancient mythologies and fueled by delusion, gullibility, and fear.

Secondly, yes, I absolutely do attempt to debunk specific beliefs that I see as bordering on sheer lunacy. However, my goal is NOT to convert anyone. If you believe in and fear a god, any god, I want you exactly as you are – although do I wish your reading comprehension was a little better. Re-read Meet the Bastard and pay close attention. I explained in crystal clear language why this website exists.

Cheap Table Tricks

Even if only on a subconscious level, evangelical Christians are scared senseless of the mere possibility that evolution, for example, might irrefutably explain how we came to be. The truth of evolution would be devastating to creationists on so many levels.

Let’s pretend that I formulated a viable theory proving that Mickey Mouse single-handedly built the Great Wall of China. Would you waste even a minute of your time trying to disprove it? Of course not.

Now ask yourself why.

Evangelical Christians vomit forth a myriad of reasons why evolution must be disproved, but know this: it is only out of fear. Their true motivation has absolutely nothing to do with winning souls over for Christ or defending the faith or any other bullshit rationalization. They do so only to protect their intellect and stave off feelings in insecurity, delusion, and looking foolish before a world of non-believers.

If Christians had an ounce of pure faith in what they claim to believe is true (i.e. god’s act of creation), then they’d ignore evolution as just another stupid, baseless theory – just like my theory about Mickey Mouse and The Great Wall of China. If they’re right about evolution, then the two theories are on a par, carry the same weight, and they’re are equally harmless and a total non-threat to their theology. Period.

But humor me. Ask any evangelical Christian what they think about Mickey and the Wall. Seriously. Watch them roll their eyes and walk away without a word of rebuttal. I find it interesting how they don’t respond consistently to theories they claim are without merit.

Oh, they might argue that it’s their duty to defend the faith…blah, blah, blah. But that’s pure bullshit. I don’t think the all-powerful and all-knowing Wizard of Odd really needs these fallible humans to make his case for him. Remember, Christians claim (in the same breath no less) that the proof of god’s existence is patently obvious (even to a child) from the amazing design and order of the universe alone. But all that proof suddenly falls victim to their deep insecurities of looking foolish (should they be wrong) when someone like me questions their sanity.

Just a little consistency, please. That’s all I ask.

Who Really Cares?

I’ll probably catch some grief from my fellow atheists who enjoy the study of evolution and the debate that ensues, but I must air a big fucking pet peeve of mine.

I really don’t give a rat’s ass about evolution as it has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on my beliefs or lack thereof. I’m not an atheist because of evolution, and I wouldn’t become a believer if it was disproved concretely and absolutely.

Likewise, I wish my fellow atheists would stop focusing so much on the topic and using it to bolster the case against god because there’s really no need for it. In fact, making it an arguing point (and defending it) works against us, not because evolutionary theory is weak (in my opinion it’s not), but because it gives credence to their assertion that evolution is the sacred cornerstone of our disbelief. And if that’s true, then falsifying evolution would give credence to their assertion that their god exists and that he created human life in its existing form.

We all know how it went down…

     BEFORE                   AFTER

Fuck. I hate disclaimers. Yes, I know man didn’t evolve from ape. I understand common ancestor. It’s just a joke.

But really. Who gives a shit? There’s no need to defend evolution to anyone let alone some panicky bible-thumper. Let them wallow in their delusion, but let them do so in silence.

Want to shut down evangelizing Christians when they start in with all the anti-evolution talk? It’s easy. Give them NOTHING to talk about. Trust me, it works like a charm.

What follows is my standard lecture in my words. Feel free to steal it as is or find a presentation using the words and manner of your own style. As long as you stick to the general idea it gives them nowhere to go with it.

Talking the Wind Out of Their Sails

To quote Christian apologist and convicted felon Kent Hovind: “Beer is sold at football games. Beer has NOTHING to do with football.” (Hey, even delusional criminals can occasionally speak the truth.)

Similarly, evolution is a theory held by most (and virtually all) atheists – but evolution still has NOTHING to do with atheism.

In my opinion, the only people who really care about evolution are Christians. And they should care about it. A lot. The truth of it pisses all over their god parade and shits on the bible rendering it inerrant. Please, for the love of fuck, let them be the only ones clamoring about it. Ignore them. Evolution doesn’t need to be defended because religiously deluded people rail against it. Let them rail. It’s like me calling your mama a whore. Would you refute my claim or ignore me?

Atheism is intrinsically linked to religion. Evolution (be it valid or invalid) is intrinsically linked to science. But fundamentalist Christians love to mingle the two simply because they have to. From a defensive position they must.

If all atheists were suddenly stranded on a remote island and all they had to eat were apples (everything else on the island would make them violently ill), would you fairly and reasonably conclude that the only thing atheists eat are apples? Of course not. All you could conclude is that apples were the only viable option for human consumption at the moment, irrespective of belief. Even in a stretch, this is where the link between atheism and apples starts and ends. Period.

Pay close attention: Atheists reject all notions of god, and if that’s true then allpossible creation accounts (remember, every religion has one) are pure fiction. This leaves ONLY ONE VIABLE OPTION on the table, and that’s EVOLUTION. Got it? That’s where the link between atheism and evolution starts and ends. The two are joined incidentally by the absence of other viable options, per their worldview.

When another plausible explanation surfaces, atheists will then be put to a decision between evolution and something else.

The True Christian Motive

If evolution is true then the Genesis creation account is false. If the creation account is false then the bible is errant. If the bible is errant…GAME OVER! Simple as that, and there’s no getting around it.

Fundamentalist Christians cannot allow evolution to be valid, so any lie to discredit it is permitted and even encouraged to further that end. I acknowledge that in their hearts they believe that evolution is false. But an intellectually honest Christian (when you find one) will confess to their intentional deceptions (plural) or their LACK OF AUTHORITATIVE KNOWLEDGE in the discrediting of evolution under the hypocritical rationalization that they’re trying to save souls. (So much for Exodus 20:16.)

You’ll find just one of many stunning Christian acknowledgments here:

“While there are ministries and individuals who purposefully suppress the truth and present fallacious information, this kind of behavior is extremely evil and antithetical to biblical Christianity.”

I acknowledge that there are many Christians (and other theists) who do accept evolution as fact and take the position that the earth is much older than 6,000 years. They have resolved in their hearts and minds that god guided evolutionary processes to give us all forms of life as we know them.

But because I’m a realistic guy and look for a win wherever I can find one, I’m content with their position as it trashes the Genesis account and thus invalidates the bible. I’m a happy guy any time I can get a Christian (or Jew) to admit that the bible is errant, or that perhaps it contains stories that were authored to explain the world around us (or to teach a higher concept) based on the knowledge of the times.

The Coup de Grace

Evolution could be true or false and it would have absolutely ZERO IMPACT on my belief system. There is no god regardless of the validity of evolutionary theory. Why? Again, because evolution has absolutely NOTHING to do with atheism. Errancy in evolution would just make it just another one of man’s many faulty theories. Big deal.

So to Christians I say, if it will make you feel better and more secure about what you believe, then I’ll stipulate it for you…[clearing throat]…


Feel better now, babydoll? Good.

Oh, and psssst…[whispering]…there’s still no god.

Next topic please.

One Last Thing To Ponder

Seems to me that Christians are the most insecure of all theists. They can’t walk from Point A to Point B without trying to convince someone that their beliefs are true. And they’re forever playing the part of the perennial victim.

Christians represent the VAST majority of the theological makeup of the United States, yet they claim to be the persecuted ones. WTF?

Check the statistics here. Apparently, the majority (76% of our nearly 308 million citizens) are on the run from the bottom 8% who don’t believe. Quick, someone call the War Crimes Commission! The scant few of us are about to march all 224.5 million of them into the ovens. We just killed their all-powerful god!

Consider this sobering fact: the fucking Hare Krishnas don’t even proselytize anymore. I mean, really. They wrote the god damn book on shoving religious shit in everyone’s face. When’s the last time you saw one handing out pamphlets at the airport? 1978? Maybe.

There are approximately ONE BILLION practicing Hindus on the planet. This accounts for nearly ONE SEVENTH OF HUMANITY. But even if it were only one tenth of humanity, this staggering number of people believe that that Brahma created the universe, and their creation story is in complete conflict with the Judeo-Christian account. And know that every Christian on the planet thinks these people are delusional, 100% wacko, thoroughly misguided.

How often do you see or hear Hindus trying to prove that their creation story is true? And when was the last time you heard or saw a Hindu proselytize? To both of these questions, the answer is probably never. It’s clear to me that Hindus, by and large, are far more secure in their beliefs and unabashedly more faithful than Christians.



American Humanist Association



Stories of Atheist Discrimination

Public School Prayer Complaint Turns Nasty — Bastrop, LA (2011)

Damon Fowler, a high school student at Bastrop High School, complained about an unconstitutional school prayer planned for an upcoming graduation ceremony. The school initially agreed to cancel the prayer, but Fowler’sname was leaked as the one behind the complaint. As a result, he has been publicly demeaned by teachers and students, physically threatened—including death threats—and was ostracized from the community. He was thrown out of his house and financial support was withheld by his own parents. A student gave a prayer at the graduation ceremony anyway—another attack against Fowler and perhaps other atheist students—instead of a moment of silence. The AHA now administers a scholarship fund for Fowler.

Prayer Banner Case Ends Up In Federal Court — Cranston, RI (2011)

Jessica Ahlquist, a student at Cranston High School West, filed a federal lawsuit asking that a prayer banner be removed from the public school. The banner, which violates the First and Fourteenth amendments of the U.S. Constitution, includes the phrases “Our Heavenly Father” and “Amen.” Local authorities are asking that the banner remain. 

According to a story in The Providence Journal, “students and adults have called [Ahlquist] a ‘stupid atheist,’ an ACLU tool, a witch and a ‘media whore.’ They’ve also threatened her through e-mails or at school, she says. A former classmate told her that, if she knew what he really thought of her, she would kill herself, she says.”

Creationist History Teacher Confronted — Kearny, NJ (2008)

During his junior year of high school Matthew LaClair, of Kearny, NJ, took a history class from a teacher who used his position to promote his personal religious beliefs, including creationism. Matthew went to school officials and his teacher and was rebuffed. It was only after he produced audio recordings of his teacher in class did he get any attention. This resulted in LaClair becoming a target of harassment, including death threats. He also lost friends and many of the people in his town turned against him. It took many months of working through the tactics of a non-responsive school system before his determination resulted in teachers being trained on state-school separations issues.

The Student Education Assembly on Religious Freedom was created at LaClair’s high school as a result of the turmoil. In 2008, LaClair received the American Humanist Association’s Humanist Pioneer Award.

Faith Healing Kills — Oregon City, OR (2011)

Dale and Shannon Hickman have been convicted of second-degree manslaughter after failing to seek medical attention for their newborn baby, delivered in their home two months early. The couple,Members of Oregon City’s Followers of Christchurch, decided instead to pray and anoint the 3-pound, 7-ounce baby with olive oil. David Hickman lived less than 9 hours following the attempt at faith healing.

At trial, medical experts testified that there was a 99% chance that, given proper medical attention, the baby would have survived. As a result of this case, Oregon’s lawmakers have removed a religious exemption that could minimize the couple’s jail time to 18 months.

Richard Dawkins Dissed By Country Club — Rochester Hills, MI (2011)

The managers of the Wyndgate Country Club decided to cancel a fundraising event featuring Richard Dawkins, the well-known evolutionary biologist, author and atheist. The cancelation came after one of the club’s officials saw Dawkins on “The O’Reilly Factor,” discovering for the first time he was an atheist. The official decided that was cause enough to cancel the confirmed engagement, which had to be quickly moved elsewhere.

The AHA is assisting the Center for Inquiry in a possible legal response.

Atheist Marching Band Hated For More Than Blowing Vuvuzelas — Bryan/College Station, TX (2010)

During the annual Bryan/College Station Christmas parade the Brazos Valley Vuvuzela Atheist Marching Band took part. The 18-person band played “Jingle Bells” while wishing people a merry Christmas, happy Hanukkah, and merry Kwanzaa.

Many residents declared their disdain, likening atheists to the Ku Klux Klan, pedophiles, and labeling them a “hate group.” One local resident was quoted as being concerned for her children because “it was hard for them to believe and understand that there are actually people out there that don’t believe in God.”  Video

No Pray, No Play — Hardesty, OK (2007)

Nicole Smalkowski, a public school student at Hardesty High School, ended up in court after incidents at her school over her family’s atheism. As a member of the basketball team, Smalkowski refused to take part in The Lord’s Prayer offered by coaches. She was soon kicked off the team, after being accused of hurting morale and stealing someone’s shoes, which she denies. Back on the team the next year, she was once again kicked off for not taking part in the prayer and for saying the Pledge of Allegiance without “under god.” School officials said she was kicked off for threatening to kill someone. Again, Smalkowski denies the allegation.

Smalkowski had to endure harassment and mistreatment by students and teachers, resulting in her parents opting to provide homeschooling. “You know they would call me devil worshipper. I’d walk down the halls, people would laugh at me. They would look at me really weird and stare me down,” she said. A lawsuit was eventually settled.  Video